"Brother" open thread
This is a series of posts previously in the comments section of the jim open thread post. Responses have been interspersed below.
You presuppose I'm not working hard, doing my best and trying to be a "good" person.
Please keep in contact with your mother and father. They worry about you.
2007/01/06 5:58:44
You imply that I don't keep in contact with my mother and father. Periodic phone calls and returning for the holidays clearly demonstrates this has not been the case.
Convenient. You write "very personal," yet post it in a public website?
Sorry, "Love" here doesn't translate.
It seems like you yourself still haven't gotten over the fact that "C" was and still is much smarter (at least academically) than yourself. And a PhD proves it.
Just be an average American, with normal life ambitions, normal values, normal friends, normal likes and dislikes, who likes sports, works out (let me tell you a lot of "C" and working out by the way. Did you know that "C" has to put down everything that he himself can't do by the way? Just to make himself feel better),
Define "average" and "normal," and I'll describe everything that's wrong about it. Then I'll suggest you why following Jesus is the only way.
Nice to see you demonstrating my above point, by the way.
and stuff like that. Don't you like stuff? Like sports? Like working out? Like hanging out with friends? Like going to the movies? LIke TV? Like games? I seriously feel like there is nothing in the world that "C" likes or enjoys. He's always putting everything down, except Mariah Carey and Whitney Houston. I don't even know if he still likes them!
Sure, I like them. But they are secondary to following Jesus and living a right life.
Good for you to take the intiative. This doesn't mean you "got over" him, though.
I went to South Africa to "get away from it all," and "C" was the one who followed me! He came to visit me at the University of Fort Hare (where I was based) and tried to take over everything and be the boss of me. I wouldn't have minded if it was mom, or dad or someone else but it was some idiot trying to make me like him. Which is ultimately what happened. Can you believe it? On MY grounds! I was the one hosting him yet he tried to tell me what to do, what to think and how to be. Essentially, he wanted me to be like him! I was coming back to terms with my OWN beliefs, beliefs that I had had when I was growing up, but somehow "C" managed to turn all of my beliefs upside down. He had somehow gotten me to believe that what I believed was up was down, what I believed was black was white and what I believed was right was wrong, and what was wrong was right. All things that I believed in my whole life he had somehow managed to flip upside down. He had flipped my value system upside down. He had essentially brainwashed me.
It just shows that he can make a good argument, and how you still can't measure up to that.
I like the marginalizing here. "Little" brother.
when I decided that "C" was a bad influence in my life. Of course he took great offense when I told him that I didn't appreciate him telling me what to do, criticizing me (not like the way mom does - notice how the time when my relationship with mom got really bad coincides with my friendship with "C." The difference is mom loves me and "C" couldn't care less), and trying to be the boss of my life. So when I told him to stop it, he got mad, as usual. And said that we couldn't be friends. And I said fine. I was okay with that. Then time went by and we eventually made up later but then I spoke to him one day over the phone and we disagreed over a moral issue and that was the end of our friendship. And I was okay with that. I could finally go back to believing what I always believed in and being who I was before, and repair all the years worth of damage that
had already been done.
You obviously never learned from the lesson of David being sold down the river.
Oh really? As an absentee brother (at least in your definition) for the last, oh, 14 years you have the balls to tell me who I am?
I know it. Please just come back to your family. We love you. It doesn't matter what has happened in the past. Let's start over. Start fresh. Please. I'm begging you. "C" is wrong. Why? Because he has no love. That guy is full of hate and hurt. You aren't like that. Please come back to your family. Please open your heart once again.
2007/01/07 10:50:07
I've given you terms by which you can start fresh. Take 'em or leave 'em:
Also, I was wrong about all those things I said. Correct use of the English language doesn't matter all that much. Everyone uses incorrect English in everyday speech. It doesn't matter unless you are a public speaker in some way or if you have to write something. But even then it doesn't even matter all that much.
Also, I was wrong to be so mean to you and be absent in your life starting my second year of high school. Can we please start over?
2007/01/07 11:36:40
Contradicting yourself is all too common with you.
You weren't raised to behave in this way. You were raised to work hard, do your best and be a good person.
You presuppose I'm not working hard, doing my best and trying to be a "good" person.
I know I said that I wouldn't contact you after I got back to Los Angeles but I can't go on the rest of my life not talking to my brother. So yes. I know I am breaking what I said.
As has been commonplace with you.Please keep in contact with your mother and father. They worry about you.
2007/01/06 5:58:44
You imply that I don't keep in contact with my mother and father. Periodic phone calls and returning for the holidays clearly demonstrates this has not been the case.
For my brother - very personal::Love
Convenient. You write "very personal," yet post it in a public website?
Sorry, "Love" here doesn't translate.
You are too defensive, just like "C" (I won't use his real name), and take personal offense to everything that people say for no apparent reason.
I'm only defensive when I'm being attacked, such as now. As for your "personal offense" nonsense, this is an unsubstantiated claim.It seems like you yourself still haven't gotten over the fact that "C" was and still is much smarter (at least academically) than yourself. And a PhD proves it.
Why is this? I understand why for "C" but for you? What is the reason? I used to engage in argument in this way out of bad habit from hanging around "C" (which you really did not enjoy btw) and now you are doing the same thing.
"Engag[ing] in argument" and criticism for pessimism's sake are two different things. You did the latter, and continue to do so, despite your claims of the contrary.I don't know where you learned this. "C" loves to argue for argument's sake and loves to come out on top -- or appear like he comes out on top (wins the argument) especially if he feels like you are weak. Then he knows how to take advantage of you. I should have told mom about the things that "C" was saying to me but I didn't. Partially because I trusted him (which he later back-stabbed me, which always happens with my "close" friends) and partially because I felt like I had no other "real" friends.
Oh, so there was no substance to what "C" was arguing, similar to how I argue is your implication?Just be an average American, with normal life ambitions, normal values, normal friends, normal likes and dislikes, who likes sports, works out (let me tell you a lot of "C" and working out by the way. Did you know that "C" has to put down everything that he himself can't do by the way? Just to make himself feel better),
Define "average" and "normal," and I'll describe everything that's wrong about it. Then I'll suggest you why following Jesus is the only way.
Nice to see you demonstrating my above point, by the way.
and stuff like that. Don't you like stuff? Like sports? Like working out? Like hanging out with friends? Like going to the movies? LIke TV? Like games? I seriously feel like there is nothing in the world that "C" likes or enjoys. He's always putting everything down, except Mariah Carey and Whitney Houston. I don't even know if he still likes them!
Sure, I like them. But they are secondary to following Jesus and living a right life.
Did you know that while I was in South Africa, I was the one who decided that I didn't want to be friends with "C" anymore?
Good for you to take the intiative. This doesn't mean you "got over" him, though.
I went to South Africa to "get away from it all," and "C" was the one who followed me! He came to visit me at the University of Fort Hare (where I was based) and tried to take over everything and be the boss of me. I wouldn't have minded if it was mom, or dad or someone else but it was some idiot trying to make me like him. Which is ultimately what happened. Can you believe it? On MY grounds! I was the one hosting him yet he tried to tell me what to do, what to think and how to be. Essentially, he wanted me to be like him! I was coming back to terms with my OWN beliefs, beliefs that I had had when I was growing up, but somehow "C" managed to turn all of my beliefs upside down. He had somehow gotten me to believe that what I believed was up was down, what I believed was black was white and what I believed was right was wrong, and what was wrong was right. All things that I believed in my whole life he had somehow managed to flip upside down. He had flipped my value system upside down. He had essentially brainwashed me.
It just shows that he can make a good argument, and how you still can't measure up to that.
The main reason why I went to South Africa, apart from taking a vacation and all that stuff I said, was to find myself.
Good for you. That doesn't give you the right to deny the fact that I've done the same thing and have reached a different conclusion and path.That is the real reason why I went. Yes, that cliche journey that everyone always makes fun of but I truly had to do that because I felt like I just wasn't the me who I was before. I had somehow changed into this person who I didn't want to be. I didn't know who I was anymore - after years of hanging around and listening to "C"- and I had to find myself once again. So I set off to a foreign country to do that and have space to do that. Then "C" came along and tried to be the boss again to get be and "J" to be his little lacheys (I never treated you like a lachey. You were always my brother)
I like the marginalizing here. "Little" brother.
when I decided that "C" was a bad influence in my life. Of course he took great offense when I told him that I didn't appreciate him telling me what to do, criticizing me (not like the way mom does - notice how the time when my relationship with mom got really bad coincides with my friendship with "C." The difference is mom loves me and "C" couldn't care less), and trying to be the boss of my life. So when I told him to stop it, he got mad, as usual. And said that we couldn't be friends. And I said fine. I was okay with that. Then time went by and we eventually made up later but then I spoke to him one day over the phone and we disagreed over a moral issue and that was the end of our friendship. And I was okay with that. I could finally go back to believing what I always believed in and being who I was before, and repair all the years worth of damage that
had already been done.
You obviously never learned from the lesson of David being sold down the river.
This is not you. The way you are behaving and what you are saying.
Oh really? As an absentee brother (at least in your definition) for the last, oh, 14 years you have the balls to tell me who I am?
I know it. Please just come back to your family. We love you. It doesn't matter what has happened in the past. Let's start over. Start fresh. Please. I'm begging you. "C" is wrong. Why? Because he has no love. That guy is full of hate and hurt. You aren't like that. Please come back to your family. Please open your heart once again.
2007/01/07 10:50:07
I've given you terms by which you can start fresh. Take 'em or leave 'em:
- have intellectual integrity - admit when you are wrong when we are discussing an issue
- if you are a believer and follow Jesus, reference the Bible as your authority. If you do it improperly (i.e., in a heretical fashion), refer to point 1.
Also, I was wrong about all those things I said. Correct use of the English language doesn't matter all that much. Everyone uses incorrect English in everyday speech. It doesn't matter unless you are a public speaker in some way or if you have to write something. But even then it doesn't even matter all that much.
Also, I was wrong to be so mean to you and be absent in your life starting my second year of high school. Can we please start over?
2007/01/07 11:36:40
Contradicting yourself is all too common with you.
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Comment by Ernie Els— 2007/01/14 @ 06:26 PM — (Reply)
Comment by albert— 2007/01/15 @ 11:25 AM — (Reply)
Comment by Ernie Els— 2007/01/15 @ 02:47 PM — (Reply)
Comment by albert— 2007/01/15 @ 07:14 PM — (Reply)
Comment by Ernie Els— 2007/01/15 @ 07:17 PM — (Reply)
Comment by albert— 2007/01/15 @ 08:11 PM — (Reply)
Comment by Brother— 2007/01/14 @ 08:47 PM — (Reply)
You've created a false dichotomy. Love is the greatest of all things (1 Cor 13) but it is ultimately responsible for the expression of everything else (Luke 10:27).
The "family"'s brand of love is overbearingly protective familialism to the point of suffocation. Thanks, but no thanks. I prefer to have people understand me and be understood first, rather than simply forcing your will on someone, emotionally or otherwise.
Comment by albert— 2007/01/15 @ 11:21 AM — (Reply)
Comment by Brother— 2007/01/15 @ 11:39 AM — (Reply)
Comment by Brother— 2007/01/14 @ 10:49 PM — (Reply)
Comment by Brother— 2007/01/15 @ 02:43 PM — (Reply)
Comment by Brother— 2007/01/15 @ 03:28 PM — (Reply)
Comment by Brother— 2007/01/15 @ 03:31 PM — (Reply)
So why do you persist?
If having a PhD doesn't prove anything, what does having a bachelor's do?
No, I'd prefer to "have you in my life," provided you're actually trying to understand what it is I'm saying.
We never were a family in the first place, if it's defined along the lines of understanding one another.
Comment by albert— 2007/01/15 @ 03:50 PM — (Reply)
Comment by Brother— 2007/01/15 @ 05:38 PM — (Reply)
To reitertate: Your family cares about you, cares about your future, cares about how you will live and wants to give you the best that your family can afford to give to you. There are good times and there are bad times but we still love each other no matter what. That is family.
I love you and care about your well-being. I don't how many people are going to say that to you besides me, your Mom and your Dad. You are always in my thoughts and prayers.
Comment by Brother— 2007/01/15 @ 06:22 PM — (Reply)
“Just don’t get it"? What is it that I don’t get?
I’m sorry that you’re sorry, because you’re that much further away from having a real relationship with me and with God. You also said you don't want to hear about God, and have shown a general disinterest in knowing Scripture. This only underscores your dogmaticism and heart of stone towards God.
Right. Including the time you tried to lay a royal guilt trip on me this past Christmas, in which you allowed me zero opportunity to respond? That was much appreciated.
As words would not be able to express how and in what ways I would committed suicide before. Do you think that would have been any better?
Wrong, you're lying. You feel like all you can do is just wait... until one day I will follow your advice. Different story, which speaks again of an emotional coercion (you should've been a shrink).
And I don't care about myself, my future, how I will live, and giving myself the best as well? If not, you're deluding yourself.
If you "love"-d me you'd understand me first, and do what I asked you to do. Let me say it again, and add some other things as well: your definition of love is different from mine. Your "love," moreover goes only towards your blood family. You have little real compassion for others. You are a social darwinist. Your real reason for going into film is to secure your own place in the social ladder, from maybe which you can provide materially for mom and dad, maybe some other relatives. By token, you don't understand the message of the Gospel. You care minimally about the destruction we are causing to this planet. You care little about the fact that many are starving, cold, or dying in places that have little to no access to health care, clean water, or even basic shelter.
These are the least of your concerns. In that respect, your heart that breaks for me and supposedly for God is wasted, and you are misleading yourself and wasting your time.
Comment by albert— 2007/01/15 @ 08:11 PM — (Reply)
You keep talking about suicide. This is now the second time I have heard you mention this. Do you want to see a mental health counselor or seek pastoral counseling? I am serious about this. I will be happy to pay for it.
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Regarding other matters:
I think that you are misunderstanding a critical point about what I mean when I say that "all I can do is just wait, hope and pray that you will one day see and understand what I am talking about." You seem to interpret this as that I am waiting for the one day when you will follow my advice. This is a wrong interpretation as I do not mean this at all. I am not waiting for you to follow my advice. I am waiting for you to see and understand how much your family loves you no matter what you do. I am waiting for you to know how much your family thinks about you every night and every day and prays for you. I am waiting for you to know how much your mother loves you and prays for you and thinks about you and misses you. I am waiting for you to know how much your father loves you and prays for you and misses you....
In terms of this "advice" that you keep mentioning, let me tell you my position. You have the freedom to do whatever you want and to become whomever you want, as long as you are not hurting anyone else. If you think that I am telling you to go to college for Mom and Dad, or for me, you have badly misunderstood me. If you go to college, it needs to be because you want to. Not because someone else told you to. Even now, a lot of people don't go to college. For example, I don't know what the exact percentage is but not everyone who graduates from H. High will go to college. I don't know what they end up doing afterwards but they don't go. My point is, if you go to college, it needs to be because you want to go. Not because someone else told you to go. Going to college will only benefit you; and, in turn, you may be able to benefit others if you so choose to give back to society - which is what I think is the right thing to do. How you can give back to society is limitless.
My belief is that a person should have the freedom to choose what he or she wants to become in his or her own life. That person should seek guidance from people with more experience such as parents, teachers, family members, people in the field that they are interested in, very importantly, God's guidance. Parents, family members and teachers can guide that person but ultimately, the choice lies with the person. Growing up it may not have felt that way because maybe Mom and Dad felt like our options were limited. And maybe they were. But times have changed. If you don't want to become an engineer, then don't. But have a better alternative. If you don't want to go to college, then don't. But have a better alternative. Steve Jobs and Bill Gates dropped out of college, but they had better alternatives waiting in the wings.
And I'm happy to admit that I'm not always right. Please let me know when I'm not as I want to know. So going back to your earlier demands for a renewed relationship, (1) yes I am happy to say that I am not always right. (2) Yes Scripture should be the foundation of one's life. I don't have a problem with that so long as this is what you mean.
Comment by Brother— 2007/01/15 @ 10:25 PM — (Reply)
You keep talking about suicide. This is now the second time I have heard you mention this. Do you want to see a mental health counselor or seek pastoral counseling? I am serious about this. I will be happy to pay for it.
No, it's entirely unnecessary, as I have mentioned before. The reason I have brought it up is primary to point out the errors of the system by which I was raised, and which you continue to cheerlead for.
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Regarding other matters:
I think that you are misunderstanding a critical point about what I mean when I say that "all I can do is just wait, hope and pray that you will one day see and understand what I am talking about." You seem to interpret this as that I am waiting for the one day when you will follow my advice. This is a wrong interpretation as I do not mean this at all. I am not waiting for you to follow my advice. I am waiting for you to see and understand how much your family loves you no matter what you do. I am waiting for you to know how much your family thinks about you every night and every day and prays for you. I am waiting for you to know how much your mother loves you and prays for you and thinks about you and misses you. I am waiting for you to know how much your father loves you and prays for you and misses you....
You're missing the corollary, which is key to the "interpretation" argument you are feebly making with this: this is caused by familialism. If I believed in familialism, such a problem wouldn't exist. Similarly, if I believed in the Confucian system of payback and honor, such a problem wouldn't exist, or would be at least somewhat remedied. The problem is that neither are central to my beliefs nor actions.
This is the beginning of a self-defined orthodoxy, not a regard to the authority of scripture as a total guide to life (number 1).
If you think that I am telling you to go to college for Mom and Dad, or for me, you have badly misunderstood me.
You're making a straw man. I never implied this was the case.
As for your last two sentences, this is where I don't necessarily agree. A weak argument that points only towards your own authoritarian desires for me, versus actually being in possession of the false dichotomy of choice which you again fallaciously create.
Such a position is heretical: if you do indeed follow point 1, Jesus says that the greatest commandment is loving God first, then your neighbor. Read the passage, if you can find it.
Parents, family members and teachers can guide that person but ultimately, the choice lies with the person. Growing up it may not have felt that way because maybe Mom and Dad felt like our options were limited. And maybe they were. But times have changed. If you don't want to become an engineer, then don't. But have a better alternative. If you don't want to go to college, then don't. But have a better alternative. Steve Jobs and Bill Gates dropped out of college, but they had better alternatives waiting in the wings.
Once again, this is a dead giveaway to your desire to gain middle-to-upper-class wealth, which in the context of our mother and father's backgrounds is social darwinism.
Great. You can start by addressing my second interspersed comment, or any of the claims I make regarding social darwinism, Confucianism, your lack of adherence to Scripture as ultimate authority, and/or your incorrect interpretation or usage of Scripture as an authority.
How are they demands? I'm not holding anyone hostage.
If you really didn't have a problem with it (point 2), you would either agree/understand my position better or would be more open to hearing what I and others have to say with regards to its correct interpretation.
Comment by albert— 2007/01/16 @ 08:16 PM — (Reply)
Comment by Brother— 2007/01/16 @ 10:53 PM — (Reply)
Comment by Brother— 2007/01/16 @ 11:11 PM — (Reply)
You have a virtually unlimited amount of time to say it.
I'll give it 7 days for you to go back on your word.
And one again, we never were a functional family in the first place.
You clearly misunderstand my intentions. I once again never said I was uninterested in a relationship, but rather actually am. If you or mom or dad are unwilling to approach it on my terms, I'm unfortunately going to have to keep my distance from your overbearing patronizing of me.
You overuse the word "love" and degrade its meaning. I don't agree with it, and moreover don't believe such is the truth.
And save the melancholy for the judge.
Comment by albert— 2007/01/17 @ 11:33 AM — (Reply)
1) A verse that I think that I'm supposed to share with you. The one about worry not about the tomorrow for today has enough worry of its own. So don't worry about the future because today has enough worries of its own. This applies to your doomsday prophecy even if it is true.
2) What happened to me today (Friday, Jan. 19) at work. It's very important.
3) And as a result, a lesson that I learned that's really important - life changing important. (You were right about to a certain extent.)
4) And stuff about mom - mom was right - mom is always right; lessons that I learned from mom when I was a kid but forgot -
Please don't ignore my phone calls. I need to talk to you.
Comment by Brother— 2007/01/19 @ 07:54 PM — (Reply)
Whatever you have to say, you can say it on here.You're doing two things: 1) confusing prophecy with heresy, and 2) misinterpreting the meaning of the verse in its larger context.
Again, whatever you have to say you can say it on here.
Another one of your patronizing "life lessons." Say it on here.
That's, again, unsurprisingly dogmatic of you. Mom has made herself into a liar at times "for my sake." Was she right then?
Like I said, you can talk here.
Comment by albert— 2007/01/19 @ 09:25 PM — (Reply)
Comment by Brother— 2007/01/19 @ 10:37 PM — (Reply)
Comment by Brother— 2007/01/19 @ 10:39 PM — (Reply)
Comment by Brother— 2007/01/19 @ 10:41 PM — (Reply)
Comment by Brother— 2007/01/19 @ 10:42 PM — (Reply)
Comment by Brother— 2007/01/19 @ 10:45 PM — (Reply)
I need to talk to you please!
Comment by Brother— 2007/01/19 @ 10:30 PM — (Reply)
Comment by Brother— 2007/01/19 @ 10:35 PM — (Reply)
Comment by Brother— 2007/01/19 @ 10:46 PM — (Reply)
Comment by Brother— 2007/01/19 @ 10:47 PM — (Reply)
Comment by Brother— 2007/01/19 @ 10:48 PM — (Reply)
Comment by Brother— 2007/01/19 @ 10:48 PM — (Reply)
THESE ARE ALBERT'S BEST QUALITIES
Comment by Millard Fillmore— 2007/01/20 @ 07:39 AM — (Reply)
Comment by Brother— 2007/01/20 @ 09:30 AM — (Reply)
Comment by albert— 2007/01/22 @ 06:11 PM — (Reply)
Comment by Howard Stern— 2007/01/20 @ 09:52 AM — (Reply)
Comment by albert— 2007/01/22 @ 06:11 PM — (Reply)
Happy now jackass?
Comment by Howard Stern— 2007/01/23 @ 08:44 AM — (Reply)
Comment by Brother— 2007/01/20 @ 10:12 AM — (Reply)
Comment by Ernie Els— 2007/01/20 @ 10:25 AM — (Reply)
Comment by Brother— 2007/01/20 @ 10:32 AM — (Reply)
Comment by Ernie Els— 2007/01/20 @ 10:36 AM — (Reply)